Disabled children must share a room judgement...bedroom tax

[caramac]

I can see that children who have no problems should have to share a room, but those children and adults who need 24 hour care, hoists, wheelchairs, oxygen cylinders, pumps etc should be eligible to have a room to themselves, allowing the sibling/partner to sleep. Even having to house a carer should mean they're exempt from this tax.

As the funding to respite care homes and hospices has been cut, there is obviously less provision already for these vulnerable people and they are having to be looked after almost solely at home. Now that home is under threat too. The numbers (and costs) involved must be very small in the scheme of things, but they're an easy target.

[Perthbum]

Appreciated info PB. But are they classing everyone that's "disabled" the same? Or is it anyone that that is disabled be it someone totally dependent on others or a minor disablement? Not trying to diss a minor disability but there's a huge difference. Just interested?

The politicians don't seem to know the answer, one was asked who this really affects but he would not give a straight answer...typical politician.

[Perthbum]

where PB ?....If they are farming out the recent influx into london ......to places like walsall and stoke, because of lack of housing ....its bonkers

 

if we could keep control of our borders ....the rooms issue , wouldnt be an issue .......because housing the influx is costing a bloody fortune .

 

now ordinary britons are getting squeezed its outrageous

Here you go mate.

 

 

Empty Homes Statistics 2011/12

 

 

How Many Homes Are Empty? …

 

 

710,000 empty homes are currently empty in England according to the 2012 Empty Homes Stats!

 

 

The latest (November 2012) empty homes statistics show that of these, 259,000 are long- term empty (meaning they have been empty for more than six months). These are the headline figures, and a detailed regional breakdown is now available: Click here for Empty Homes Statistics for 2012

 

http://www.emptyhomes.com/statistics-2/empty-homes-statistice-201112/

[Incata]

I can see the reasons behind it Cow,im not using it to have a dig at the tories,but making it work "fairly" is difficult without innocent parties suffering,like i say,it seems a no brainer to me,save a large part of 22 billion a year(if thats correct)by building decent affordable social housing,and kick start the building trade,but im no economist or expert obviously,but it "seems" straight forward

 

I think it is targeted at elderly people, living in 3 or 4 bedroom council houses who only use one bedroom. They do say it will be assessed on individual needs and based on how the military do it (children of different sexes not allowed to share a room), I can't see it will make a great deal of difference to people who are disabled as the people who are being targeted are those who have more rooms than they can use and someone who is disabled would have their case looked at individually.

 

I feel a measure of sympathy for the elderly who say that it is their family home and they brought their children up in it, but they did have the opportunity to buy it dirt cheap while Mrs Thatcher was in power (not sure if they still have the right to buy - perhaps someone can tell us) and I personally feel the house would be better utilised by a family who might otherwise be homeless.

 

My issue with council housing is that they don't give it to local people as a priority. If you are a new immigrant you go to the top of the list whereas people who have lived in the area all their lives and want to continue living and working there, get pushed to the bottom of the list, so that some gypsy with 6 kids can live there, claim benefits and then get articles written about them in the local rag about how the house is not big enough for them and they should really be placed in a luxury pad on millionaires row (even though they have never, and have no intention of ever, contributing to the UK economy at all).

[pablo]

I think it is targeted at elderly people, living in 3 or 4 bedroom council houses who only use one bedroom. They do say it will be assessed on individual needs and based on how the military do it (children of different sexes not allowed to share a room), I can't see it will make a great deal of difference to people who are disabled as the people who are being targeted are those who have more rooms than they can use and someone who is disabled would have their case looked at individually.

 

I feel a measure of sympathy for the elderly who say that it is their family home and they brought their children up in it, but they did have the opportunity to buy it dirt cheap while Mrs Thatcher was in power (not sure if they still have the right to buy - perhaps someone can tell us) and I personally feel the house would be better utilised by a family who might otherwise be homeless.

 

My issue with council housing is that they don't give it to local people as a priority. If you are a new immigrant you go to the top of the list whereas people who have lived in the area all their lives and want to continue living and working there, get pushed to the bottom of the list, so that some gypsy with 6 kids can live there, claim benefits and then get articles written about them in the local rag about how the house is not big enough for them and they should really be placed in a luxury pad on millionaires row (even though they have never, and have no intention of ever, contributing to the UK economy at all).

 

I wouldnt have thought there were that many elderly living in 3 and 4 bed homes alone tbh,i dont know that btw,i just cant see it,also it doesnt matter if they had the chance to buy it to me,not everyone wanted to buy,some maybe on principle of selling off social housing,some because they might not have been working or able to.

 

I dont know how they prioritise council housing,so unless i know for fact they prioritise immigrants then i wont get too worked up about it.

I mentioned leeds,there is 7 thousand incurring this tax apparently,but only 50 one bed flats to downsize to,it just doesnt seem fair to me,i'd say that if Labour introduced it as well

[flybyknight]

i know a few glassbacks in the uk, most of them are on the take, its endemic.

like a person who is deaf with no other major issues being entitled to motability.

how does being deaf stop you walking?

holiday abroad every year too!

 

the system is flawed, people are just bitchin about the benefit cuts.

hard life innit!

 

i pity them, but that doesnt mean we should all support their every need.

[caramac]

i know a few glassbacks in the uk, most of them are on the take, its endemic.

like a person who is deaf with no other major issues being entitled to motability.

how does being deaf stop you walking?

holiday abroad every year too!

 

the system is flawed, people are just bitchin about the benefit cuts.

hard life innit!

 

i pity them, but that doesnt mean we should all support their every need.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone wants your pity - that's patronising in the extreme. We're also not talking about those who are deaf!! Of course they can share a room. We're talking about people who have disabilities which have such an impact on their lives and those of the rest of their family that they need a separate place to sleep.

I'm guessing that you've never had to try to sleep next to someone on CPAP? Or who needs their tracheostomy suctioned regularly throughout the night? Or who is incontinent and needs cleaning during the night? No? I hope you never do. People who have no holidays, or even a day's break, never mind going abroad! Many of these people have life threatening or limiting illnesses.

Perhaps seeing the real people behind the headlines might make you a little more empathetic to the real hardships such families face every day.

[flybyknight]

I don't think anyone wants your pity - that's patronising in the extreme. We're also not talking about those who are deaf!! Of course they can share a room. We're talking about people who have disabilities which have such an impact on their lives and those of the rest of their family that they need a separate place to sleep.

I'm guessing that you've never had to try to sleep next to someone on CPAP? Or who needs their tracheostomy suctioned regularly throughout the night? Or who is incontinent and needs cleaning during the night? No? I hope you never do. People who have no holidays, or even a day's break, never mind going abroad! Many of these people have life threatening or limiting illnesses.

Perhaps seeing the real people behind the headlines might make you a little more empathetic to the real hardships such families face every day.

 

good point, i guess the real issue is finding a sure fire way to sort the truly needy from the not-so needy.

hell of a job, i commend the government for trying, i don't envy them though! you can please everyone.

[caramac]

good point, i guess the real issue is finding a sure fire way to sort the truly needy from the not-so needy.

hell of a job, i commend the government for trying, i don't envy them though! you can please everyone.

 

 

I actually don't believe they are trying too hard. They seem to go with ill thought out, knee jerk decisions (not only in this area, but health, education and so on) to the detriment of some of the most vulnerable people in society, only to have to backtrack somewhere down the line when they realise they've made yet another mess because they've gone with what they believe to be the popular view (and hoping that will be enough to gain more votes).

Of course there are always going to be those who abuse the system, but they will never play by the rules however tough they are. It's those who do things by the book who always end up worse off.

There does need to be reform, but it has to be more comprehensively considered before any action is taken which make the lives of families who are already having what most of the rest of us would consider intolerable. Don't act first and think later.

[CrozierFamily]

All the talk of severely disabled children being forced to share rooms is just scaremongering from the left. I have no doubt that if an individuals needs requires a single room they will get it. It is this kind of pathetic scaremongering that causes more trouble and ill feeling when the government is desperately trying to reduce an unsustainable public sector spend.

 

Perhaps some people will fall between the cracks who do really need the help, but in the main they will be sorted out and these changes are predominantly doing the right thing.

 

Old folks in council homes with more rooms than they need do not have a divine right to their property, neither do families or individuals with more beds than they need. We need to cut our cloth according to what is affordable. Unfortunately this will obviously cause some degree of upset to individuals, which is a shame, but alas it is the way it has to be.

 

The money has run out. Hard decisions are required.

[Sammy1]

All the talk of severely disabled children being forced to share rooms is just scaremongering from the left. I have no doubt that if an individuals needs requires a single room they will get it. It is this kind of pathetic scaremongering that causes more trouble and ill feeling when the government is desperately trying to reduce an unsustainable public sector spend.

 

Perhaps some people will fall between the cracks who do really need the help, but in the main they will be sorted out and these changes are predominantly doing the right thing.

 

Old folks in council homes with more rooms than they need do not have a divine right to their property, neither do families or individuals with more beds than they need. We need to cut our cloth according to what is affordable. Unfortunately this will obviously cause some degree of upset to individuals, which is a shame, but alas it is the way it has to be.

 

The money has run out. Hard decisions are required.

 

I personally think we need to stick up for the 'old folks' that you talk about. Why should they have to move out? I personally would not want to uproot an old lady or gentleman that has lived in a house for thirty odd years - What, put them in an old people's home, away from their friends and support network??? No way.

[caramac]

I'm not from 'the left' (they're all as bad as each other!). I'm coming from what my friends who work in the area (psychiatrists, GPs, palliative care drs, social workers, nurses ) trying to support families, are seeing all too regularly, sadly. From what they're seeing, it isn't scaremongering, it's a reality.

I don't think anyone would argue that changes need to happen, but they need to be better thought out. It shouldn't be that people who are already having a hard time have to fight for what is right - those safeguards should have been put in place first.

There also have to be smaller houses for people to move into. It was lovely that people were given the option of buying their own home, but it has meant that there is a shortage now of social housing. There needs to be investment in building smaller houses and flats. It's ok having that housing in the private sector, but there need to be safeguards in place regarding maximum rent payable, depending on location (too many are charging inflated rent) and maybe a government body who can inspect the houses/flats regularly to make sure they're habitable, safe, and not overcrowded.

[CrozierFamily]

I personally think we need to stick up for the 'old folks' that you talk about. Why should they have to move out? I personally would not want to uproot an old lady or gentleman that has lived in a house for thirty odd years - What, put them in an old people's home, away from their friends and support network??? No way.

 

Why should the rest of us have to pay for their big houses? They had their whole lives to save up and buy their own place and they didn't do it. I appreciate it is difficult, but the gravy train has to stop.

[Sammy1]

Why should the rest of us have to pay for their big houses? They had their whole lives to save up and buy their own place and they didn't do it. I appreciate it is difficult, but the gravy train has to stop.

 

Oh come on, they are hardly living in luxury mansions. I think the elderly deserve a little respect and who are you to judge that they, for whatever reason, could not afford to buy a house? The young should look after the very old, some of us even call it social responsibility

[CrozierFamily]

Oh come on, they are hardly living in luxury mansions. I think the elderly deserve a little respect and who are you to judge that they, for whatever reason, could not afford to buy a house? The young should look after the very old, some of us even call it social responsibility

 

I am not saying they should be thrown out to the street, and I am not saying they should all of a sudden start paying for the extra rooms, but if there is a smaller home available for them to move into then that should happen. It is only fair.

 

If they could not afford to buy a house they should be provided with something that fits their needs. Thats it.

 

I know this is a difficult subject and my view may feel heartless to a point, but hard decisions are required. My grandmother is going to have to sell the house my grandfather strived to buy all his life to pay for an old folks home, that doesnt feel fair either, but that is the way it is.

[Perthbum]

I am not saying they should be thrown out to the street, and I am not saying they should all of a sudden start paying for the extra rooms, but if there is a smaller home available for them to move into then that should happen. It is only fair.

 

If they could not afford to buy a house they should be provided with something that fits their needs. Thats it.

 

I know this is a difficult subject and my view may feel heartless to a point, but hard decisions are required. My grandmother is going to have to sell the house my grandfather strived to buy all his life to pay for an old folks home, that doesnt feel fair either, but that is the way it is.

one big problem..there are no smaller houses as councils have found...why move an elderly couple who live in a two bedroom house or flat miles away from their support network and friends.....i honestly am seeing what some people are really like on this thread and it is not nice....

[Incata]

I'm not from 'the left' (they're all as bad as each other!). I'm coming from what my friends who work in the area (psychiatrists, GPs, palliative care drs, social workers, nurses ) trying to support families, are seeing all too regularly, sadly. From what they're seeing, it isn't scaremongering, it's a reality.

I don't think anyone would argue that changes need to happen, but they need to be better thought out. It shouldn't be that people who are already having a hard time have to fight for what is right - those safeguards should have been put in place first.

There also have to be smaller houses for people to move into. It was lovely that people were given the option of buying their own home, but it has meant that there is a shortage now of social housing. There needs to be investment in building smaller houses and flats. It's ok having that housing in the private sector, but there need to be safeguards in place regarding maximum rent payable, depending on location (too many are charging inflated rent) and maybe a government body who can inspect the houses/flats regularly to make sure they're habitable, safe, and not overcrowded.

 

Every new housing estate has to have a certain proportion of the housing as "social housing". These are often 1,2 or 3 bedroom apartment or houses grouped together in part of the estate. The new rules (introduced last year I think) place maximums on the rent payable to private landlords and the houses are inspected to make sure they are up to standard. That is rarely the problem. The reason they are inspected is because they get trashed on a regular basis by the tenants, to the extent that most private buy-to-let insurance companies will not allow landlords to rent their houses to be let out as social housing.

[Incata]

Oh come on, they are hardly living in luxury mansions. I think the elderly deserve a little respect and who are you to judge that they, for whatever reason, could not afford to buy a house? The young should look after the very old, some of us even call it social responsibility

 

It isn't about putting them in old peoples homes or not giving them any respect. It is saying that they don't need a 4 bedroom house if they are living on their own. It is saying that they can go into a 1 or 2 bedroom house/flat and let a young family in desperate need have the 3 or 4 bedroom house they are living in. It isn't about turfing them out on the street, it is making sure that those in need are provided for.

[caramac]

Every new housing estate has to have a certain proportion of the housing as "social housing". These are often 1,2 or 3 bedroom apartment or houses grouped together in part of the estate. The new rules (introduced last year I think) place maximums on the rent payable to private landlords and the houses are inspected to make sure they are up to standard. That is rarely the problem. The reason they are inspected is because they get trashed on a regular basis by the tenants, to the extent that most private buy-to-let insurance companies will not allow landlords to rent their houses to be let out as social housing.

 

 

I know that happens too. My ex bil is a surveyor who works for a council in the midlands and some of the things he's told us about are awful. In those circumstances more action needs to be taken against the perpetrators - they seem to just get things repaired and carry on as usual. Maybe they should be the ones to lose their homes and not the ones who, through no fault of their own, need more room.

[Rupert]

All the talk of severely disabled children being forced to share rooms is just scaremongering from the left. I have no doubt that if an individuals needs requires a single room they will get it. It is this kind of pathetic scaremongering that causes more trouble and ill feeling when the government is desperately trying to reduce an unsustainable public sector spend.

 

Perhaps some people will fall between the cracks who do really need the help, but in the main they will be sorted out and these changes are predominantly doing the right thing.

 

Old folks in council homes with more rooms than they need do not have a divine right to their property, neither do families or individuals with more beds than they need. We need to cut our cloth according to what is affordable. Unfortunately this will obviously cause some degree of upset to individuals, which is a shame, but alas it is the way it has to be.

 

The money has run out. Hard decisions are required.

 

I agree it is just scare mongering, the government is simply tightening things up. The benefits system is ridiculous, my OH's sibling has two very mildly autistic children, they are provided with brand new people carrier every three years even though the children are perfectly capable of walking and they always had their own car anyway, they sold that when the finished the application. They sold their owned house too, so they would get a house provided for them. They take a couple of holidays every year and have just announced that now they are getting a freebie holiday.

 

It goes on, the benefits system is a joke and I have no doubt whatsoever that where there is need for separate rooms, it will be provided. I also think benefits should be a safety net not a lifestyle.

[pablo]

Some posters seem to just conveniently ignore the fact that there aren't council properties to downsize "to",often it leads people to go private which can cost the tax payer more,i gave an example of Leeds,7 thou paying the tax,but only 50 i bed council properties to downsize to,its nothing to do with the "Left" as the usual tory rubbish gets spouted,plenty of tory mp's have questioned this tax strongly,plenty think theyre shooting themselves in the foot,i'd say the same over this tax if Labour introduced it btw

[pablo]

I agree it is just scare mongering, the government is simply tightening things up. The benefits system is ridiculous, my OH's sibling has two very mildly autistic children, they are provided with brand new people carrier every three years even though the children are perfectly capable of walking and they always had their own car anyway, they sold that when the finished the application. They sold their owned house too, so they would get a house provided for them. They take a couple of holidays every year and have just announced that now they are getting a freebie holiday.

 

It goes on, the benefits system is a joke and I have no doubt whatsoever that where there is need for separate rooms, it will be provided. I also think benefits should be a safety net not a lifestyle.

 

They get free jet ski's as well,so someone said anyway

[CrozierFamily]

one big problem..there are no smaller houses as councils have found...why move an elderly couple who live in a two bedroom house or flat miles away from their support network and friends.....i honestly am seeing what some people are really like on this thread and it is not nice....

 

Some of us live in reality, a place that bills actually need paid and money doesn't grow on trees.

[Perthbum]

I agree it is just scare mongering, the government is simply tightening things up. The benefits system is ridiculous, my OH's sibling has two very mildly autistic children, they are provided with brand new people carrier every three years even though the children are perfectly capable of walking and they always had their own car anyway, they sold that when the finished the application. They sold their owned house too, so they would get a house provided for them. They take a couple of holidays every year and have just announced that now they are getting a freebie holiday.

 

It goes on, the benefits system is a joke and I have no doubt whatsoever that where there is need for separate rooms, it will be provided. I also think benefits should be a safety net not a lifestyle.

Really.....all that for nowt....who would have believed it :rolleyes:......I think you fail to regonise that the vast vast majority of people desperately want to work as shown as the hundreds who apply for one stacking job at tescos......hope you never lose your job and have to scrounge of the rest of those dirty scroungers.

[Perthbum]

Some of us live in reality, a place that bills actually need paid and money doesn't grow on trees.

Yes lets move these elderly people miles from family and friends and the support network they have built over decades....caring people....my ares.....this inept government could start with the thousands of empty houses doing nothing.