Emigrating without son

[Amber2106]

I have 2 older children from a previous relationship and 2 younger children from my marriage,  we are currently going through the prep work before submitting our EOI, the issue I have is that one of my older boys is saying now that he doesn’t want to move, he is almost 14 so likely to be nearly 15 when we make the move. His father has now said he will not sign any paperwork if our son says he doesn’t want to go. 

I have offered him the choice of coming for 2 years until the end of high school then returning to the uk to stay with his dad for college. 

He doesn’t see the big picture, I have my other children to consider too. 

If he decides he won’t come where do I stand with having him join us later when he decides he misses his family!

can I make his dad sign the forms giving permission?

[Tulip1]

Maybe he does see the bigger picture. Maybe he's realised he will be living on the other side of the world to his dad.  You cannot make his dad sign the form and it would be wrong to try, sounds like he's acting in what he believes is his sons best interests. Yes you do have other kids to think of but the child in question came before them and they will thrive wherever they are, it's the adults that make the choice to emigrate.   I don't know how you'd ensure he could join you later as the only way that could happen for sure is that he be added to your application which sounds like that isn't happening. I am not saying the world revolves around one teenage kid but look at reality, you may split a family for ever.  Certainly for some years, is it really worth it?  As frustrating as it is, you shouldn't hassle him over this, he has a right to make his own decisions even if they don't fit with what you want. I hope things work out 

[Amber2106]

His father isn’t the most reliable parent, he struggles to pay the minimum maintenance each week and often goes months without, he wouldn’t have the means to support his son Independant of state benefits. 

When we visited as a family earlier this year my son was alkdor it and it’s my belief that it’s his father putting doh ta into his head, infact i have the evidence of this where he tell his son to behave badly and to disrespect us. 

My son will undoubtedly miss his dad but I would use any maintenance many paid to cover return flights as often as possible. 

[Quoll]

I'm not sure your plan is feasible either. The better option would let him validate his visa - if dad will agree to that, then return to finish A levels in UK by which time he can then make the choice about whether he opts for further education and training in UK or  Aus - he will have 5 years before he needs to become resident before his visa expires. If he aspires to Uni, then he needs to be resident for 3 years before starting otherwise he gets slugged for international fees. Also, Aus year 12 results don't travel to UK nearly as well as A levels do in the opposite direction.

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Amber2106 said:

His father isn’t the most reliable parent, he struggles to pay the minimum maintenance each week and often goes months without, he wouldn’t have the means to support his son Independant of state benefits. 

When we visited as a family earlier this year my son was alkdor it and it’s my belief that it’s his father putting doh ta into his head, infact i have the evidence of this where he tell his son to behave badly and to disrespect us. 

My son will undoubtedly miss his dad but I would use any maintenance many paid to cover return flights as often as possible. 

If his dad doesn't give permission you will have to take the matter to court and persuade the judge it's in your sons best interest to go. At your sons age I believe the courts will take what he wants into the equation. Many people don't have the means to support their children independent of state benefits, that's what they're for, to help parents to bring up their children if that help is needed.  I've no idea what type of parent your ex is but the fact he'd need financial help from the state wouldn't make him a bad, unsuitable parent. Also if your son did stay with him you'd have to pay him maintenance which would be beneficial to your son. The court would expect you to show how you are going to keep up his relationship with his dad and that will include the cost of flights etc. You've said you would use any maintenance received for return  flights. Based on the fact you said you rarely get maintenance does that mean you wouldn't be covering the cost of flights.  If your son could go on your visa application then at least it would leave the door open for him to join you in the future, assuming he stays with his dad for now. The problem with that is getting his dads permission as once he's on that application I assume you could force him to go with you as his dads essentially given permission for him to be on that visa application. 

[Amber2106]

I’m aware that the courts will take many things into consideration if it ever came to that. I find it hard to believe that any authority would favour a father who has never consistently financially supported his son, nor provided a home environment, encourages bad behaviour, over a mum and step dad who have always put a roof over his head, fully paid for all his needs without relying on benefits, 3 other siblings, family support, not to mentik his fathers recreational choices. 

It’s a very difficult situation for all involved but I firmly believe it’s in my sons best interests to make the move 

regardkess if maintenance I would pay for my son to return home at least once a year and also for his father to stay with us in aus during visits, Skype calls and texts and the option to return after education 

[calNgary]

We have had a couple of posters lately who have teenage sons who ''didnt want to move'' and now a few years on they do and cannot get here, so what ever you decide i would push for him to get the visa and at least activate it, that way he has a slightly better chance of moving here if circumstances change in the future.

Good luck with everything

 Cal x

[ali]

5 hours ago, Amber2106 said:

I’m aware that the courts will take many things into consideration if it ever came to that. I find it hard to believe that any authority would favour a father who has never consistently financially supported his son, nor provided a home environment, encourages bad behaviour, over a mum and step dad who have always put a roof over his head, fully paid for all his needs without relying on benefits, 3 other siblings, family support, not to mentik his fathers recreational choices. 

It’s a very difficult situation for all involved but I firmly believe it’s in my sons best interests to make the move 

regardkess if maintenance I would pay for my son to return home at least once a year and also for his father to stay with us in aus during visits, Skype calls and texts and the option to return after education 

They're not going to be looking at the issue of maintenance but at your right to remove your son from the country and his father.  You will need to prove that it is in your sons best interests to live in Australia.    I don't know if you ex paying maintenance to you in Aus is enforceable.  Despite how you describe his dad - your son obviously has a relationship with him that he values (even if you may not feel it's in his best interests).

The best option would be to try to get his dad to agree to him going on the application to leave his options open.  That he would need to validate with a trip to Australia and you may have to consider buying your son a return ticket as proof of your sincerity to allow him to return to his dad.  I agree with Quoll in that A level results are no hinderance to people getting into Uni here in Aus as a friends daughter got her PR validated and remained in the UK to complete her A levels prior to attending UWA..

  Have you considered mediation?

[Gbye grey sky]

1 hour ago, Amber2106 said:

I’m aware that the courts will take many things into consideration if it ever came to that. I find it hard to believe that any authority would favour a father who has never consistently financially supported his son, nor provided a home environment, encourages bad behaviour, over a mum and step dad who have always put a roof over his head, fully paid for all his needs without relying on benefits, 3 other siblings, family support, not to mentik his fathers recreational choices. 

It’s a very difficult situation for all involved but I firmly believe it’s in my sons best interests to make the move 

regardkess if maintenance I would pay for my son to return home at least once a year and also for his father to stay with us in aus during visits, Skype calls and texts and the option to return after education 

The courts would not be favouring the father though, would they?  They would if anything be favouring your son who would be making his own choice to remain behind.

I agree with Ali that mediation would be the best bet perhaps with some kind of written agreement that your son can repatriate at any time after validating his visa.  Whether such an agreement could be binding in law though is highly doubtful but I would suggest that if you chose not to honour that agreement you would lose all of your son’s trust and your relationship with him may never recover.

[Marisawright]

As Ali says, I suggest you take a different approach.

Tell your ex and your son that you accept he wants to stay in the UK.  So long as you insist on him coming with you, you're going to get no cooperation, so it's not helpful.

Explain that you want him to have the best of both worlds, and the best way to do that is to include him in the visa application.  That way, he will have the right to live in both the UK and Australia and he can pop back and forth as often as he wants.  

When the visa is granted, he needs to come with you to Australia to activate his visa - but then he can go back and stay with his dad for a while.

Chances are, if his father is unable to look after him and he's used to living with you, he won't last long living at his Dad's and will be ringing you up, wanting to come out to Oz.  

Whereas if you force him, you're going to create resentment and bad feeling and he may never forgive you.

 

[Tulip1]

8 hours ago, Amber2106 said:

I’m aware that the courts will take many things into consideration if it ever came to that. I find it hard to believe that any authority would favour a father who has never consistently financially supported his son, nor provided a home environment, encourages bad behaviour, over a mum and step dad who have always put a roof over his head, fully paid for all his needs without relying on benefits, 3 other siblings, family support, not to mentik his fathers recreational choices. 

It’s a very difficult situation for all involved but I firmly believe it’s in my sons best interests to make the move 

regardkess if maintenance I would pay for my son to return home at least once a year and also for his father to stay with us in aus during visits, Skype calls and texts and the option to return after education 

That's the second time you've mentioned state benefits. I think you're likely to get the judges back up if you do that in court.  A child doesn't care where the money comes from. There is a really simple solution to your worries that his dad won't be able to give him as much as you currently do. The solution is you can still give your son the same financial support you do now (phone contract paid/money for nice clothes/pocket money) you don't have to live under the same roof to do that. Your son doesn't have to suffer any hardship, you can make sure he doesn't regardless of where you reside.  That's one worry ticked off the list. I do agree with the others that mediation is the way forward. You say things like you have given your son the option to return to the UK after his education.  It's not an option you're offering, he can do what he likes at that age.  At 16, a child can leave home and live where they want, the only time the authorities would get involved is if the child was in obvious danger.  The law actually says 18 but it is a fact from 16 intervention is only used in rare cases. You can go to Gretna Green on your 16th birthday and legally marry. I think you have all these plans which is good but all have to agree and that's not happening. You need to start from the beginning. I hope somehow your son can go in your application to leave the door open for him but your ex and your son would need 100% reassurance it won't be forced. 

[MaggieMay24]

As mentioned above, even if he doesn't want to come, it's probably worthwhile to consider the longer term and it's possible he may want to come in the future.  This is his best and easiest option to get a PR visa to visit or live in Australia, so if all that it takes is for him to get a medical check and to have a short holiday to validate the visa when it's granted, more likely than not he'll be glad to have done it.  Many times people have posted about older children who weren't included in visa applications and now can't find an option to come to Australia when they want to.

[Raul Senise]

Explain to your son and his father that the fact that he is included in the application, does not mean that he has to go to Australia. They just need to validate the visa with a single visit once approved and then they have 5 years to decide if they want to come to Australia in the future. Its an insurance Policy which will give them the opportunity in the future, if, and only if they want to take it.

I have seen too many occasions when teenagers say they don't want to go, only to change their mind later when they are no longer eligible to join the family in Australia.