Marisawright Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Paul1Perth said: Unless you let them know though they aren't going to have a clue what's in your UK account. That may be true, but if you don't declare it, you're committing fraud. As an Australian resident, you're liable to pay tax on all your income, even if it's earned abroad and left in accounts there. If they don't find out about it, fine - but if they do, you'll be up for eye-watering fines. I don't think it's complicated at all, actually. I'm sure the poster gets a fixed annual amount from each of those pensions and all they have to do is declare their annual income, end of story. Edited February 24, 2021 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durhamlad Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Marisawright said: That may be true, but if you don't declare it, you're committing fraud. As an Australian resident, you're liable to pay tax on all your income, even if it's earned abroad. If they don't find out about it, fine - but if they do, you'll be up for eye-watering fines. I don't think it's complicated at all, actually. I'm sure the poster gets a fixed annual amount from each of those pensions and all they have to do is declare their annual income, end of story. Sorry it does not work like that, each payment from one provider is the same in UK pounds each month but when converted to $A is different each month depending on exchange rate. Correct you can try to hide accounts etc but get caught out and you could be in trouble, unlikely but even have your visa cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, Durhamlad said: Sorry it does not work like that, each payment from one provider is the same in UK pounds each month but when converted to $A is different each month depending on exchange rate. Of course there is some variation due to the exchange rate, but that is because you are choosing to use the daily rate. As you point out, the ATO allows monthly and yearly averaging and I am pretty sure that Centrelink does the same. They certainly do not monitor your income month by month to adjust your pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Bonbeach Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I have just received from Centrelink a monthly breakdown of the exchange rate UK/AU saying that that is the rate at which my UK pensions were calculated. Certainly my UK pensions vary each month after exchange rate is applied, and my AU pension also varies (by small amounts) each month so they must look at what I receive from the UK, and adjust accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 44 minutes ago, Mike@Bonbeach said: I have just received from Centrelink a monthly breakdown of the exchange rate UK/AU saying that that is the rate at which my UK pensions were calculated. Certainly my UK pensions vary each month after exchange rate is applied, and my AU pension also varies (by small amounts) each month so they must look at what I receive from the UK, and adjust accordingly. Interesting. So does that mean they have access to check your UK pension account every month, or how do they know how much it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Marisawright said: Interesting. So does that mean they have access to check your UK pension account every month, or how do they know how much it is? There is definitely information sharing between HMRC and the ATO. I don't know that there is definitely information sharing between DWP and Centrelink but it wouldn't surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Marisawright said: Interesting. So does that mean they have access to check your UK pension account every month, or how do they know how much it is? They can probably see how much is coming into your bank account. Mind you, it wouldn't be hard to have a computer program to adjust the monthly payment based on your average UK pension and current exchange rate. I'm sure they automate as much as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Ken said: There is definitely information sharing between HMRC and the ATO. I don't know that there is definitely information sharing between DWP and Centrelink but it wouldn't surprise me. I decided to look into this. Clearly stated on the DWP website is: DWP may share information with and get it from other organisations such as: social security organisations in other countries Personal information charter - Department for Work and Pensions - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) Clearly Centrelink are being told how much UK pension you've been paid straight from the horses mouth - far easier than monitoring foreign bank accounts! Edited February 25, 2021 by Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, Ken said: There is definitely information sharing between HMRC and the ATO. I don't know that there is definitely information sharing between DWP and Centrelink but it wouldn't surprise me. I’m sure they do share info, I’m just surprised if they’re going to all the work of checking every single month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, Marisawright said: I’m sure they do share info, I’m just surprised if they’re going to all the work of checking every single month For Old Age Pensions the info (and the exchange rates) probably feed straight in with no human intervention so the Aus pension payment can be automatically adjusted. Not really any work of checking involved. For private pensions on the other hand it would be a lot of work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said: They can probably see how much is coming into your bank account. I'd be surprised if Centrelink has free access to people's bank accounts - surely there would be an outcry over privacy issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Marisawright said: I'd be surprised if Centrelink has free access to people's bank accounts - surely there would be an outcry over privacy issues? They certainly can see balances of your bank accounts and quantity of shares you own. I don't know if they can drill down to see individual transactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Marisawright said: I’m sure they do share info, I’m just surprised if they’re going to all the work of checking every single month I assume it is automated but not sure. When i advised Centrelink Australia of my Mum's passing, her UK pension immediately stopped too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Marisawright said: I'd be surprised if Centrelink has free access to people's bank accounts - surely there would be an outcry over privacy issues? Isn't there a law in Australia where banks need to be completely open to the tax office? I would have thought Centrelink would have the same access Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 hours ago, newjez said: Isn't there a law in Australia where banks need to be completely open to the tax office? I would have thought Centrelink would have the same access There might be a law that grants access to Centrelink but a law that applies only to the ATO doesn't apply to Centrelink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Parley said: They certainly can see balances of your bank accounts and quantity of shares you own. I don't know if they can drill down to see individual transactions. I had to check this, because I find it unbelievable that Centrelink can just go and look at anyone's bank balance. It sounds like a total breach of privacy. It's not true. They know the balance of your bank accounts and the shares you own because you tell them when they ask. Basically, they can view your bank account ONLY if they suspect you of committing welfare fraud. https://www.rothgard.com.au/what-you-need-to-tell-centrelink/ Quote: "Many people believe Centrelink has access to your bank account and will take it into consideration for your payment rate. This isn’t true." https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/centrelink/is-centrelink-checking-your-bank-account https://www.ratecity.com.au/bank-accounts/faqs/can-centrelink-access-bank-account Edited February 25, 2021 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Marisawright said: I had to check this, because I find it unbelievable that Centrelink can just go and look at anyone's bank balance. It sounds like a total breach of privacy. It's not true. They know the balance of your bank accounts and the shares you own because you tell them when they ask. Basically, they can view your bank account ONLY if they suspect you of committing welfare fraud. https://www.rothgard.com.au/what-you-need-to-tell-centrelink/ Quote: "Many people believe Centrelink has access to your bank account and will take it into consideration for your payment rate. This isn’t true." https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/centrelink/is-centrelink-checking-your-bank-account https://www.ratecity.com.au/bank-accounts/faqs/can-centrelink-access-bank-account My understanding is they have a link and can get updated balances for bank accounts and shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Parley said: My understanding is they have a link and can get updated balances for bank accounts and shares. All of those articles say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 57 minutes ago, Ken said: There might be a law that grants access to Centrelink but a law that applies only to the ATO doesn't apply to Centrelink. Most of these things seem to be optional, although they screw you if you don't comply. The Australian government is good at making offers you can't refuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, Marisawright said: All of those articles say otherwise. I am going by what the Centrelink lady told me in person. Maybe she lied but why would she ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Parley said: I am going by what the Centrelink lady told me in person. Maybe she lied but why would she ? Sometimes the people on the front desk don't fully understand the back office processes. Or she could just have been warning that they can do it, if they need to (which is true, but only if they suspect fraud). Maybe all those articles are wrong, but I can't find anything else that says otherwise. Interested to read anything anyone else can find. Edited February 25, 2021 by Marisawright 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Bonbeach Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 When I started claiming the Australian Aged pension after 10 years of being here I had to detail all my incomes in GBPounds and it is a legal requirement to keep Centrelink up to date with any changes. As the UK aged pension doesn't change after emigrating then yes Centrelink does know the value of my pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Mike@Bonbeach said: When I started claiming the Australian Aged pension after 10 years of being here I had to detail all my incomes in GBPounds and it is a legal requirement to keep Centrelink up to date with any changes. As the UK aged pension doesn't change after emigrating then yes Centrelink does know the value of my pension. That's what I mean. They know what you tell them, and you have a legal obligation to keep them up to date. But I don't think they can check your bank account directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 .A quick Google throws up a few links where it says they cant and a few where it says they can, so i'd hazard a guess they have the means to if they want . One of the links Marissa posted above says - '' Yes, Centrelink can access your bank account, but only if you give them a reason to. Centrelink uses data-matching software with other federal government agencies to help it crack down on welfare cheats. This is why it’s important to give true and matching information to all government agencies. For example, if you report to Centrelink your annual income is $25,000, but at tax time you report your income as $50,000 with the ATO, it’s likely you’ll be ‘red flagged’. At this point, Centrelink can legally request that your bank hand over your personal bank account details, to review your finances. In most cases, Centrelink does not have the authority to take money out of your account. You will usually be given written notice to repay the debt. However, Centrelink can also reduce your benefits until you’ve paid back what you owe. In extreme cases, Centrelink can garnish your wages and assets (including money in your bank account) until your debt is repaid. https://www.ratecity.com.au/bank-accounts/faqs/can-centrelink-access-bank-account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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