Heading Back

[Dougie]

Hi Everyone

I've been a long-time 'lurker' on this site.  Moved to Sydney from the UK in 2017, and now I'm looking to head back (though I have citizenship, so I can always 'ping pong' .

I've been struggling over here for most of the time - mentally, at least.  I'm in a very well-paid job, have a house with a pool, lovely dogs etc.  But I have a terrible sense of alienation culturally - I've struggled to make friends (something which never occurred back in the UK - though I completely accept that this is likely down to me, I'm not having a go at Aussies).  I don't enjoy my job in the way that I did back in the UK.  On top of that, I have come to realise that the nice summers (and they are nice) are - for me - not balanced by the awful winters (amazing what a lack of Xmas can do! - and of course, I know Aussie winters are far less grim than UK winters!).  While I own my own house, I live in the outer west - Sydney is now ludicrously unaffordable for anyone starting out; a property like the one I have would set someone back several million dollars if it was within reasonable range of the CBD.  The work-life balance over here is surprisingly poor - I work many more hours, with far fewer holidays (I work in construction, so once the enforced two-week shutdown is factored in, I get 12 days annual leave per year where I get to decide when I have them - not exactly ideal when foreign travel often requires two days on a plane for a return trip).  I also miss things I didn't think that I would miss as much as I do - the BBC, Marks and Spencers (why does Australia not have anything other than Coles and Woolies?  The food variety in supermarkets is poor!) and being able to visit a different city without boarding a plane .

It is still with a heavy heart that I will be leaving - it took many years of dedicated effort to get here, so it feels like such a shame in so many ways.  But I'm done, and will be looking to head off early next year.

Cheers to all who read this - hope this hasn't come across too negative; Australia is still a wonderful place, and I can of course see the appeal for so many.  I've just found that, ultimately, it isn't for me.

I'm curious to see if this all sounds a bit daft - is it unusual for what seems like a lot of small things to have such a cumulative effect that the pull back is unable to be resisted?

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, Dougie said:

I've been struggling over here for most of the time - mentally, at least.  I'm in a very well-paid job, have a house with a pool, lovely dogs etc.  But I have a terrible sense of alienation culturally

I'm curious to see if this all sounds a bit daft - is it unusual for what seems like a lot of small things to have such a cumulative effect that the pull back is unable to be resisted?

Not at all daft.  Many many people feel like this.  Although you list a lot of the things you don't like in Australia, it's not really about that, is it?  Those are simply justifications because you know there's no logical reason why you feel this way, and that makes you feel 'a bit daft'.  But you're not daft at all. A surprising number of people have that fundamental feeling of "not belonging".   Because it's not logical, it's not something you can change.  If you don't feel at home, Australia could be a paradise and you still wouldn't be truly happy.  There will always be something indefinable, but essential, that's missing.

I daresay someone will drop in to say you're a fool to go back to the UK in the mess it's in right now.  Privately they're probably thinking this stuff about "not belonging" is all psychological claptrap and you should pull yourself together and get over.   I used to think that, but since joining PomsinOz, I've seen so many people in genuine distress because of it, I've changed my mind.  

Let's face it, most people never migrate.  It's actually normal to feel an attachment to the land of your birth.  People like me, who can change countries without a second thought, are the exceptions not the rule. Best of luck with your move!

[Dougie]

33 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Not at all daft.  Many many people feel like this.  Although you list a lot of the things you don't like in Australia, it's not really about that, is it?  Those are simply justifications because you know there's no logical reason why you feel this way, and that makes you feel 'a bit daft'.  But you're not daft at all. A surprising number of people have that fundamental feeling of "not belonging".   Because it's not logical, it's not something you can change.  If you don't feel at home, Australia could be a paradise and you still wouldn't be truly happy.  There will always be something indefinable, but essential, that's missing.

I daresay someone will drop in to say you're a fool to go back to the UK in the mess it's in right now.  Privately they're probably thinking this stuff about "not belonging" is all psychological claptrap and you should pull yourself together and get over.   I used to think that, but since joining PomsinOz, I've seen so many people in genuine distress because of it, I've changed my mind.  

Let's face it, most people never migrate.  It's actually normal to feel an attachment to the land of your birth.  People like me, who can change countries without a second thought, are the exceptions not the rule. Best of luck with your move!

Thanks Marisa.  Yes, it is something intangible - and some of it runs against logic, but I just haven't felt settled.  I came out as a backpacker in my 20s, and spent the next seven years in the UK retraining to do something which would get me back to Australia.  Then I got here and ... yeah, it just hasn't worked out for me. 

[Quoll]

Not in the least bit daft. I’ve been here 45 + years now and in the beginning I enjoyed it as an adventure but once it became obvious I was stuck here I came to hate it. It’s that very nebulous “belonging” thing - I’ve never “belonged” really, I was just having an adventure. Like you, I haven’t made good Aussie friends. I’m not an unfriendly person, I’ve just had situational acquaintances and once the situation changes the acquaintances disappear. I still have many of my U.K. friends of 50+years and it’s like we’ve never been apart when we do get back together.  There are other random things that just grate with me - the colours are all wrong! The greens aren’t the right green, the land is too red, the sky is too blue (and I have SAD when there are never ending blue skies without a glimpse of a cloud). I hate the flies in summer, the drivers irritate the sh!t out of me, lots of little irritations really.  I’m retired but I know what you mean about work-life balance when we were working! I used to joke that my DH was a 5 to 9 public servant and I wasn’t much better!

I just got back from a fabulous 5 week holiday to U.K. where I caught up with family and friends, saw my places and things and already the depression is sweeping over me. I’m a very rational person but I need my toolbox of coping strategies to stop me having a good cry in the shower every day. I can cope because I have no alternative - financially I’m better off here and my husband is an Aussie who won’t leave again - I’ve had him for half a century, I’m not going to train up a new one! (And he did agree to live in U.K. for 9years until 2020 to care for my aging parents)

Good luck with your move - I hope you experience that overwhelming sense of belonging that I felt on my recent trip. 

[CJT]

1 hour ago, Dougie said:

Hi Everyone

I've been a long-time 'lurker' on this site.  Moved to Sydney from the UK in 2017, and now I'm looking to head back (though I have citizenship, so I can always 'ping pong' .

I've been struggling over here for most of the time - mentally, at least.  I'm in a very well-paid job, have a house with a pool, lovely dogs etc.  But I have a terrible sense of alienation culturally - I've struggled to make friends (something which never occurred back in the UK - though I completely accept that this is likely down to me, I'm not having a go at Aussies).  I don't enjoy my job in the way that I did back in the UK.  On top of that, I have come to realise that the nice summers (and they are nice) are - for me - not balanced by the awful winters (amazing what a lack of Xmas can do! - and of course, I know Aussie winters are far less grim than UK winters!).  While I own my own house, I live in the outer west - Sydney is now ludicrously unaffordable for anyone starting out; a property like the one I have would set someone back several million dollars if it was within reasonable range of the CBD.  The work-life balance over here is surprisingly poor - I work many more hours, with far fewer holidays (I work in construction, so once the enforced two-week shutdown is factored in, I get 12 days annual leave per year where I get to decide when I have them - not exactly ideal when foreign travel often requires two days on a plane for a return trip).  I also miss things I didn't think that I would miss as much as I do - the BBC, Marks and Spencers (why does Australia not have anything other than Coles and Woolies?  The food variety in supermarkets is poor!) and being able to visit a different city without boarding a plane .

It is still with a heavy heart that I will be leaving - it took many years of dedicated effort to get here, so it feels like such a shame in so many ways.  But I'm done, and will be looking to head off early next year.

Cheers to all who read this - hope this hasn't come across too negative; Australia is still a wonderful place, and I can of course see the appeal for so many.  I've just found that, ultimately, it isn't for me.

I'm curious to see if this all sounds a bit daft - is it unusual for what seems like a lot of small things to have such a cumulative effect that the pull back is unable to be resisted?

I lived in the UK for 28 years then went out to Australia on WHV,  met my wife and ended up staying there for 23 years.  I remember my first day in Brisbane I looked and thought this doesn't look like the sort of place I'd be interested in living in.  I pushed my initial feelings to the back of my mind but the longer I stayed the less I enjoyed it there. 

Left Australia in 2016 and saw UK with a different pair of eyes to when I left. 

Does it have problems - hell yes

Is the weather sometimes awful- hell yes

BUT

I can do the things I enjoy doing.  Just come back from being in Dubrovnik for the first time and it was completely stunning.  Access to Europe in a couple of hours on a plane is a massive plus.

So much more here for me to do personally, and so much more variety.

Australia is portrayed as a Utopia,  for some I'm sure it is,  but for me (and by the sounds of it you too) it isn't/wasn't.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

[Cheery Thistle]

On 13/07/2024 at 10:42, Dougie said:

Hi Everyone

I've been a long-time 'lurker' on this site.  Moved to Sydney from the UK in 2017, and now I'm looking to head back (though I have citizenship, so I can always 'ping pong' .

I've been struggling over here for most of the time - mentally, at least.  I'm in a very well-paid job, have a house with a pool, lovely dogs etc.  But I have a terrible sense of alienation culturally - I've struggled to make friends (something which never occurred back in the UK - though I completely accept that this is likely down to me, I'm not having a go at Aussies).  I don't enjoy my job in the way that I did back in the UK.  On top of that, I have come to realise that the nice summers (and they are nice) are - for me - not balanced by the awful winters (amazing what a lack of Xmas can do! - and of course, I know Aussie winters are far less grim than UK winters!).  While I own my own house, I live in the outer west - Sydney is now ludicrously unaffordable for anyone starting out; a property like the one I have would set someone back several million dollars if it was within reasonable range of the CBD.  The work-life balance over here is surprisingly poor - I work many more hours, with far fewer holidays (I work in construction, so once the enforced two-week shutdown is factored in, I get 12 days annual leave per year where I get to decide when I have them - not exactly ideal when foreign travel often requires two days on a plane for a return trip).  I also miss things I didn't think that I would miss as much as I do - the BBC, Marks and Spencers (why does Australia not have anything other than Coles and Woolies?  The food variety in supermarkets is poor!) and being able to visit a different city without boarding a plane .

It is still with a heavy heart that I will be leaving - it took many years of dedicated effort to get here, so it feels like such a shame in so many ways.  But I'm done, and will be looking to head off early next year.

Cheers to all who read this - hope this hasn't come across too negative; Australia is still a wonderful place, and I can of course see the appeal for so many.  I've just found that, ultimately, it isn't for me.

I'm curious to see if this all sounds a bit daft - is it unusual for what seems like a lot of small things to have such a cumulative effect that the pull back is unable to be resisted?

I’m usually the first to say to think about this really carefully. But usually those people have kids and to be honest I do think Aus is generally a ‘better’ environment for kids and young people. But it sounds like you’re on your own - if you don’t want to stay by this point you probably will never feel comfortable there so I say go back.

As for trips to Europe - as a Europhile and multi-linguist I will miss trips to Europe more than most. But I’m moving to Aus for the impact on our daily lives - not for the rare trips to Europe (that have become much less affordable in recent years). 
 

Good luck with your move back it definitely sounds like the right love for you. 

[Marisawright]

16 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I’m usually the first to say to think about this really carefully.

You're overlooking the one element in these posts by people like Dougie -- it won't matter if the UK is sh*t because they'll feel like they belong. 

When you see a post from someone who expresses those feelings (like Dougie saying "I have a terrible sense of alienation",there's no point arguing against their perceptions of Australia or the UK.  Those are irrelevant, because they are skewed.  They feel miserable and out of place in Australia but don't understand why - so they magnify every negative thing.  They feel at home in the UK but can't put a finger on why -- so they highlight the good stuff. 

I've never suffered from homesickness in my life so I find it hard to comprehend that feeling, but I've 'met' so many people on these forums who do suffer from it, permanently, every day they stay in Australia, and it becomes intolerable.  I'll never understand it but I do respect it.

[Cheery Thistle]

25 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

You're overlooking the one element in these posts by people like Dougie -- it won't matter if the UK is sh*t because they'll feel like they belong. 

When you see a post from someone who expresses those feelings (like Dougie saying "I have a terrible sense of alienation",there's no point arguing against their perceptions of Australia or the UK.  Those are irrelevant, because they are skewed.  They feel miserable and out of place in Australia but don't understand why - so they magnify every negative thing.  They feel at home in the UK but can't put a finger on why -- so they highlight the good stuff. 

I've never suffered from homesickness in my life so I find it hard to comprehend that feeling, but I've 'met' so many people on these forums who do suffer from it, permanently, every day they stay in Australia, and it becomes intolerable.  I'll never understand it but I do respect it.

I haven’t argued against anything or overlooked any element. I have said (from what we can see from one limited post) it’s probably a good idea to move for this person and wished them well. 
 

Not everyone who posts about returning says they feel alienated. Some say they miss family, some have young kids and want a support network, some just feel like their initial reasons for moving are no longer valid (lots move when they are footloose and fancy free in their 20’s but find it’s not that practical when they have a young family). That’s all fair enough. 
 

I can literally never understand why you want to try and start a fight in every empty room you’re in @Marisawright. 

What I would say to @Dougie is consider carefully where you head to in the UK and try to choose an affluent pocket (if you can afford it). Also great that you can keep options open. 

Have no desire to hijack this soul’s thread and suggest neither should you @Marisawright. 

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I haven’t argued against anything or overlooked any element. I have said (from what we can see from one limited post) it’s probably a good idea to move for this person and wished them well. 
 

Not everyone who posts about returning says they feel alienated. Some say they miss family, some have young kids and want a support network, some just feel like their initial reasons for moving are no longer valid (lots move when they are footloose and fancy free in their 20’s but find it’s not that practical when they have a young family). That’s all fair enough. 

I really admire your attitude to people like the OP, who will probably never be content until they are home (like me!). Even though you clearly can't wait to be in Oz, you still seem able to empathise with us - your posts about your recent trip were some of the most balanced I've read on a forum. 

In this case too, you hit the nail on the head, and said just what I was thinking, the OP needs to go back

[Cheery Thistle]

4 hours ago, Nemesis said:

I really admire your attitude to people like the OP, who will probably never be content until they are home (like me!). Even though you clearly can't wait to be in Oz, you still seem able to empathise with us - your posts about your recent trip were some of the most balanced I've read on a forum. 

In this case too, you hit the nail on the head, and said just what I was thinking, the OP needs to go back

Thank you! I tried to be as honest as possible in my reflections on that trip. 
Admittedly perhaps my posts about the UK are probably not as balanced! Life in the UK just feels very…..embattled to me at times. 
We have had a few dry days in the past week which always helps and I’m close to escaping for a week in the sun too.  Blue sky is such a novelty!  DH and I know this move might not be forever but we doubt we’ll come back to the UK. Never say never, maybe I’ll be back on this section of the forum in 5 years! 
I think it bothers me a bit when people say they have more £ in the UK as well - what they often forget to say is that they’ve got that from earning more money in Aus or selling property there making a big gain and bringing it back, enabling them to have a low (or no) UK mortgage. Let’s at least have disclosure and honesty! 

[Dougie]

Thanks all for the replies - it does help; funny thing is I know I'll miss the weather and what I earn here (the pay cut will be substantial!); if pure logic was involved, I would try to stay and make a better fist of it.  But my heart is telling me otherwise.

9 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I’m usually the first to say to think about this really carefully. But usually those people have kids and to be honest I do think Aus is generally a ‘better’ environment for kids and young people. But it sounds like you’re on your own - if you don’t want to stay by this point you probably will never feel comfortable there so I say go back.

As for trips to Europe - as a Europhile and multi-linguist I will miss trips to Europe more than most. But I’m moving to Aus for the impact on our daily lives - not for the rare trips to Europe (that have become much less affordable in recent years). 
 

Good luck with your move back it definitely sounds like the right love for you. 

You're right, I am on my own; I came over here with my ex in 2017, though we broke up a year ago and she headed back to the UK.  She was actually successful socially - she had a much wider circle of friends than back home - but in the end she wanted to go back (we split up for more mundane reasons - being in Australia wasn't the cause; I would've went back too after she went but had too much to close out here).

I never was given to deep feelings of loneliness, but have of late - and I am now truly missing friends and family.

[Cheery Thistle]

23 minutes ago, Dougie said:

Thanks all for the replies - it does help; funny thing is I know I'll miss the weather and what I earn here (the pay cut will be substantial!); if pure logic was involved, I would try to stay and make a better fist of it.  But my heart is telling me otherwise.

You're right, I am on my own; I came over here with my ex in 2017, though we broke up a year ago and she headed back to the UK.  She was actually successful socially - she had a much wider circle of friends than back home - but in the end she wanted to go back (we split up for more mundane reasons - being in Australia wasn't the cause; I would've went back too after she went but had too much to close out here).

I never was given to deep feelings of loneliness, but have of late - and I am now truly missing friends and family.

Sounds like you’ve had a bit of a hard time of it recently and it does feed in to what I was saying about a change of circumstances often leading to this decision….be it a break up, having children, an illness. 
It does sound like you’ve thought it through and are at least aware of potential downsides. Your salary cut might feel a bit worse than you expect it to just because prices here have increased a lot…..everything from haircuts to insurances have increased by 20-30% since Brexit and Covid. I used to pay £75 for my hair colour and cut - it’s now £120 for example.  Went up in Covid and never came back down! We fully expected Aus to be much more expensive than the UK but it wasn’t really. 
I truly believe there is no such thing as ‘moving back’ - you move forward into a new life in the UK, as things and people will have changed in the interim. I don’t think you can fail, you can only learn. 
Wish you all the best and if it’s not for you, you can always ‘pong’ back, or have a new adventure somewhere else! 

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Sounds like you’ve had a bit of a hard time of it recently and it does feed in to what I was saying about a change of circumstances often leading to this decision….be it a break up, having children, an illness. 
It does sound like you’ve thought it through and are at least aware of potential downsides. Your salary cut might feel a bit worse than you expect it to just because prices here have increased a lot…..everything from haircuts to insurances have increased by 20-30% since Brexit and Covid. I used to pay £75 for my hair colour and cut - it’s now £120 for example.  Went up in Covid and never came back down! We fully expected Aus to be much more expensive than the UK but it wasn’t really. 
I truly believe there is no such thing as ‘moving back’ - you move forward into a new life in the UK, as things and people will have changed in the interim. I don’t think you can fail, you can only learn. 
Wish you all the best and if it’s not for you, you can always ‘pong’ back, or have a new adventure somewhere else! 

I think you're right about "moving forward" not "moving back" - thats why I object to peple saying tat those who come home have "failed" in Oz. 

My life back here is very very similar to how it was 20 years ago, but of course its not the same, because people, places, everything has moved forward. However its still familiar and still feels like Home, which is what I was after. 

Answering your comment in a previous post, I think I'm probably almost as well-off here financially as I was in Oz, when you consider that a large amount of my earnings there went on trips home, or quick breaks in Tassie, in an attempt to stay sane! A few days in Spain with my mate every few months is much cheaper, as I can stay with him, and flights are very much more affordable. Swapping a three figure salary there for part-time work here was a bit of a shock, however overall I have pretty much the same lifestyle, but I am soooo much happier that even if I am slightly worse off financially, I can cope with it.

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, Dougie said:

Thanks all for the replies - it does help; funny thing is I know I'll miss the weather and what I earn here (the pay cut will be substantial!); if pure logic was involved, I would try to stay and make a better fist of it.  But my heart is telling me otherwise.

You're right, I am on my own; I came over here with my ex in 2017, though we broke up a year ago and she headed back to the UK.  She was actually successful socially - she had a much wider circle of friends than back home - but in the end she wanted to go back (we split up for more mundane reasons - being in Australia wasn't the cause; I would've went back too after she went but had too much to close out here).

I never was given to deep feelings of loneliness, but have of late - and I am now truly missing friends and family.

You really do sound like I did at times, desperately lonely - almost all my (few) friends over there were Brits and lived in other cities. The huge pay cut has been worth it to save my sanity. Logically, I had a great job and probably should've stayed. But I could feel myself spirally downwards, and the sheer loneliness of covid, when I couldn't even get home on holiday, just tipped me over the edge. I didn't even have things like Facetime as my family always refused to do stuff like that. 

I truly hope you manage to get home and find some contentment again, it sounds like you've doe your time over there and you need to get out  

[Dan Not Dale]

Agree with everything you said. It is alienating. Ever put the news on? You’d think no other country exists. Echo chamber. Believes its own hype. 

A nicer house and a bit more cash doesn’t mean anything mate. If I didn’t have a wife or kid I’d be on the plane within a week.
 

But… Throw a kid in to the mix, I would argue Australia will be better for the child. Hence we are here. The fire, Nice to have return to Oz as an option if you have a child  and UK really gets tough.

UK of course has huge issues currently. But if you’re well clear of all that it’s gotta beat being alone and bored. It’s a great place with so much going on. You just can’t see it till you’re gone sometimes.

I get seriously depressed here every winter. 

If you don’t have kids just go home mate. You can always come back. You won’t though. Beaches are boring. Just seeing how green the trees are in my mums garden on a FaceTime call makes me want to go back. 
 

sorry for ranting all. 10 years in and miserable. If anyone is reading this and they know in their bones they yearn for home. Just go, before ’life happens’ and it’s  too complicated and you might not be able to.