804 Private Health Care

[MikeG]

Hi I’m confused. We are covered under the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement so I’m assuming we don’t need private medical when applying for this visa? Would it be helpful to have it while applying? TIA

[shaunfreo]

The reciprocal agreement is really only supposed to cover emergency and immediate care, it isn’t supposed to cover on going care. In the past this has never really been enforced but in these times of financial pressures I have seen this taken more seriously particularly in high cost care. Also some visas its a requirement and if that’s the case you should have it.

[Marisawright]

28 minutes ago, MikeG said:

Hi I’m confused. We are covered under the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement so I’m assuming we don’t need private medical when applying for this visa? 

Strictly speaking, the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement covers 'essential care only', so in theory, you would need private medical as well.  However in practice, we're seeing people getting full treatment, the same as Australians do.  So from that point of view, private medical isn't necessary.  

That's just as well, because while you're on the bridging visa, you're not eligible for any of the private health insurances available to Australians.  The only one you can get is Overseas Visitors Cover, which would be too expensive to pay long-term.  

Note, you will see companies offering policies designed specially for people who are covered by the Reciprocal Health Agreement. They are usually worthless.  They don't really cover you for anything, they're just for executives working temporarily in Australia, who want to avoid paying the Medicare levy.

Do remember that Medicare isn't the same as the NHS.  Treatment in hospital and hospital clinics is free here, but most things outside hospital are just subsidised, or not covered at all.  You may be lucky and find a GP who 'bulk-bills' (i.e. free), but most charge $40-$80 a visit.  You won't get the pensioner concession on prescriptions, so you'll be paying about $30 per prescription item.  Dental and optical aren't covered at all -- you'll have to go private. Even ambulance transport isn't covered!

https://www.nib.com.au/the-checkup/reciprocal-health-care-agreements-for-visitors-to-australia

53 minutes ago, MikeG said:

Would it be helpful to have it while applying?

Not at this point, because they're not going to make any decisions about your visa for another 30 years or so.  

[Quoll]

Dunno that as an oldie I would be without private health cover these days tbh. Unless, of course I had a big wodge of cash just sitting there to self insure but I am a belt and braces kinda gal. The waiting list for elective surgeries on Medicare can be horrendous even if they do decide that such treatment is “necessary” in your case and you may not want to bank on that. And what you may deem necessary isn’t always what the code deems as necessary.  Dental is all private and in some states ambulances can cost you a lot of money. 

[MikeG]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had made a few enquires and one insurance broker pretty much said the basic/medium cover they provide is the same as what’s covered under the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement and wouldn’t bother hence my confusion. I don’t think it’s a requirement to have private health on the 804 but if my mum would Benefit then we would take it. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

Dunno that as an oldie I would be without private health cover these days tbh. Unless, of course I had a big wodge of cash just sitting there to self insure but I am a belt and braces kinda gal. The waiting list for elective surgeries on Medicare can be horrendous even if they do decide that such treatment is “necessary” in your case and you may not want to bank on that. And what you may deem necessary isn’t always what the code deems as necessary.  Dental is all private and in some states ambulances can cost you a lot of money. 

Question is, are waiting lists for elective surgeries on Medicare any worse than waiting lists for elective surgeries under the NHS?  If Mike's mum isn't going private in the UK then why would she do any different in Australia?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MikeG said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I had made a few enquires and one insurance broker pretty much said the basic/medium cover they provide is the same as what’s covered under the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement and wouldn’t bother hence my confusion.

Did you ask them the right question though?  Your mum won't be coming on a 804 visa.  She'll be coming to Australia and applying for a 804 visa.  She will go into the queue for the 804 and in the meantime, she'll get a bridging visa (BVA).  She'll be living on that bridging visa for the rest of her life, since she'll be in the queue for 30 years. 

So the question to ask the insurance broker is, what health cover could she get on a BVA?  I'm pretty sure it would be Overseas Visitor cover.  

Edited September 8 by Marisawright

[MikeG]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Question is, are waiting lists for elective surgeries on Medicare any worse than waiting lists for elective surgeries under the NHS?  If Mike's mum isn't going private in the UK then why would she do any different in Australia?

This is a very good point. The possibility is that the UK waiting list is potentially longer 

[MikeG]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Did you ask them the right question though?  Your mum won't be coming on a 804 visa.  She'll be coming to Australia and applying for a 804 visa.  She will go into the queue for the 804 and in the meantime, she'll get a bridging visa (BVA).  She'll be living on that bridging visa for the rest of her life, since she'll be in the queue for 30 years. 

So the question to ask the insurance broker is, what health cover could she get on a BVA?  I'm pretty sure it would be Overseas Visitor cover.  

Now that makes sense I didn’t actually give it enough thought did I. I may need to make a few calls tomorrow 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, MikeG said:

Now that makes sense I didn’t actually give it enough thought did I. I may need to make a few calls tomorrow 

Do be very clear about her situation.  In the past, we've seen parents on a bridging visa, managing to get ordinary health insurance at ordinary Australian rates -- probably because the clerk who sold it to them didn't know the rules or didn't check.  It might be tempting to try, but on the other hand, you don't want to be in a situation where the error is discovered and health expenses don't get paid out.

[Bob Jones]

22 hours ago, MikeG said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I had made a few enquires and one insurance broker pretty much said the basic/medium cover they provide is the same as what’s covered under the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement and wouldn’t bother hence my confusion. I don’t think it’s a requirement to have private health on the 804 but if my mum would Benefit then we would take it. 

If it's a condtion of the VISA you'll need to supply proof before it's granted, but it can then be cancelled if the VISA holder is eligible for reciprocal healthcare.

Note that a cheap private OVHC cover will give you ambulance cover that doesn't come with Medicare. The overseas vistors cover is otherwise, pretty similar to reciprocal healthcare....base standard on the lines of NHS cover, but not identical.  

Check the ages of the parents on the policy, some of them, BUPA for one, have put an age cap on who they'll sell an OVHC policy to.  I tihnk Allianz still sell them to elderly pensioners.

 

[Quoll]

21 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Question is, are waiting lists for elective surgeries on Medicare any worse than waiting lists for elective surgeries under the NHS?  If Mike's mum isn't going private in the UK then why would she do any different in Australia?

NHS procedures have time frames by which they are supposed to be completed. Not so, here I think. I was quoted 18 months for a very straight forward procedure which a friend, in UK was whingeing because her wait was 6 weeks. Needless to say I got the wait time down to one week with some out of pocket costs. A few years ago, our local paper headlined that seeing a public urology specialist here wait time was 5 years, just as my dad had reported an issue to his GP and was seen by the specialist within 2 weeks and had a procedure in 6 weeks (Christmas had been in the middle).  My friend just had a meningioma removed - would still be waiting for a public consultation.  So, yes, I think public elective wait times are longer here, always have been. 

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

NHS procedures have time frames by which they are supposed to be completed. Not so, here I think. I was quoted 18 months for a very straight forward procedure which a friend, in UK was whingeing because her wait was 6 weeks. Needless to say I got the wait time down to one week with some out of pocket costs. A few years ago, our local paper headlined that seeing a public urology specialist here wait time was 5 years, just as my dad had reported an issue to his GP and was seen by the specialist within 2 weeks and had a procedure in 6 weeks (Christmas had been in the middle).  My friend just had a meningioma removed - would still be waiting for a public consultation.  So, yes, I think public elective wait times are longer here, always have been. 

So far we have been lucky here.  Husband rarely sees a doctor and apart from having to see a cardiologist every 12 months I steer clear of the doctor but we have friends who need to see specialists for appointments and procedures (Medicare) and they are seen to fairly quickly.  However, a neighbour has a spjnal problem and the waiting list for her is nearly 3 years - mainly because there isn't the specialist available here in the north.  There are a couple in Hobart but as I said, the waiting list is nearly 3 years.  If things get any worse she may have to go to Melbourne for the op.

Certainly anything to do with cancer is quickly treated after diagnosis at the hospitals in Burnie or Launceston.

The main problem is staff shortages.

[yvonne denby]

On 08/09/2024 at 13:24, Marisawright said:

Do be very clear about her situation.  In the past, we've seen parents on a bridging visa, managing to get ordinary health insurance at ordinary Australian rates -- probably because the clerk who sold it to them didn't know the rules or didn't check.  It might be tempting to try, but on the other hand, you don't want to be in a situation where the error is discovered and health expenses don't get paid out.

i understand bupa and alianz do extras insurance thats not covered by medicare when living on a bridging visa a with reciprocal health. i dont know if this will be enough x

 

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, yvonne denby said:

i understand bupa and alianz do extras insurance thats not covered by medicare when living on a bridging visa a with reciprocal health. 

These policies won't help you.  They're designed for business people, working temporarily in Australia. They have to pay a Medicare levy (tax), unless they have a health insurance policy.  The BUPA policy is a cheap policy that covers almost nothing (just some treatments in a private hospital, and why would you need that?), but it's enough to exempt them from the tax.  And it doesn't cover spectacles, dentistry or hearing aids. 

If you think you've found another policy for people with reciprocal health, read the policy carefully before you sign up, because you'll probably find it doesn't cover anything worth having for you.

Just to be clear: 

There is only ONE kind of health insurance that can cover visits to your GP and prescriptions and tests, and that's full Overseas Visitors Health Cover (OVHC).  Even Australians can't get health insurance to cover those things.  Australians on a low income, or pensioners, get them free or at subsidised rates, but you're not eligible for that.

Even OVHC doesn't cover spectacles, dentistry or hearing aids. For that, you need to buy an add-on policy called "Extras".  

Unfortunately OVHC is very expensive and probably out of your price range.

https://www.australianunity.com.au/health-insurance/overseas-visitor-cover

Edited Saturday at 23:52 by Marisawright